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Orginal taken from here, full credits go to the page owner [link]

I'm going to catch holy hell for this one aren't I? Just before anyone rants at me, I want to note I do not support or condone the actions of Joseph Stalin, Stalinism etc, I still hold that the man was pretty twisted at times. Rather pointing out a logical fallacy the right wing always loves to play against anyone on the left, no matter if your a liberal, socialist, anarchist, communist or whatever and that is the "communists killed X number of people." arguement
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:iconzath9:
zath9 Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2014
Humans will give more when they have less and give less when they have more. Its a survival strategy that cannot be altered and thus all leadership will inherently be cruel given enough time to adjust to ommunism gives too much power to too few people and this shit happens. Ideology plays NO role in it; they are simply forms of power used to justify the cruelty.
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
ashkuff.com/blog/?p=1965

Just something worth considering, because that whole "all humans are evil" shit isn't really hard science.
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:iconzath9:
zath9 Featured By Owner May 7, 2014
I never said humans were evil, and there have been studies done on this stuff. It wasn't my opinion, just something I was taught in criminal psychology.
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:iconatamolos:
Atamolos Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yep. No arguing with this logic. I might as well renounce my communist ways now.
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:iconfredrikslicer:
fredrikslicer Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2013
Agreed though I'm not a socialist (actually I usally describe myself as an anti-ideolog) but such arguments are silly at best
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:iconcomradesch:
ComradeSch Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I'm still far left, yet I hate Stalin and his policies. I actually link Stalin with the far RIGHT of socialism (Nazism), and thus, don't count him as a true Communist.
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:iconthe-conquerors:
The-Conquerors Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
True. Stalin was just as racsit and genocidal as Hitler if not more. The only difference was there economic polices but culturally they were the same shit. The only reason Stalin is still somewhat praised over Hitler is that he was need to take down the Reich and that was it. I shudder to think how WW2 would have gone if Stalin and Hitler remained buddies like they were in 39. ~ C
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:iconendivie11:
Endivie11 Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013
Actually this argument can be defeated when pointing out, that stalinism isn't communism(and should never be) The most annoying argument is: "Communism is not possible, because humans are greedy and selfish.(and of course, capitalism has nothing to do with this fact)" I hear that one a lot and Im suprised how much people know about human nature...
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I agree, I just like using it as a prime example of the "communists killed X number of people" fallacy.

As for everyone playing the appeal to nature card, I hold to the idea greed, corruption, and ignorance are not intrinsic human qualities but were rather drilled into us by the harsh primeval environment and later, by our obsolete social institutions.
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:iconbyronicbeat:
ByronicBeat Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Pol Pot wasn't a Marxist. He deliberately ignored Marx and in interviews even explicitly stated, "We don't have a line." He wasn't a Marxist-Leninist, he wasn't a Maoist. He was just an opportunist that used what ever label would get him foreign support. He tried to get Western Countries to save him when Vietnam decided to invade him. And thank Lenin that Vietnam invaded him.
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Sadly anti communists will continue to list him as an example, hell some even use Hitler as well. Lets just say the empire of Japan in WW2 where communists as well! Julius Caesar was also a communist and killed 200 trillion people under socialist Rome.

You know who else? The Mexican drug cartels, there communist as well!
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:iconpersona22:
Persona22 Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012
They only use Stalin because he's the most popular. How many Anti Communists will tell you about Pol Pot? Nobody, because he only killed "yellow people" and those don't count to western people.

Yeah, Communism doesn't kill people. It's an idea. People kill people.
Just like a whole bunch of US presidents killed people.
How many Indians died because of Andrew Jackson? And still his face is on the 20 dollar bills.
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:icontheinimitableecypher:
TheInimitableECypher Featured By Owner Nov 11, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I absolutely agree with this. I'm Communist and I sure as hell do not support what Stalin did wrong. I once got into one hell of an argument with someone who tried using this, among other things, as their argument. I methodically ripped their arguments apart and then they blocked me like the coward they are.

But my point is that people need to stop using "But look at Stalin's regime and what it did" as an argument against communism.
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Yeah its often played as a fallacy of sorts to silence any discussion on the merits or benefits of marxism, hell theres even people that try to revise history in there arguements to claim Hitler was a marxist.
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:icontheinimitableecypher:
TheInimitableECypher Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I know it's used as a lot of people's card. Those are the ones that get their argument neatly ripped to shreds. ;)

They claim Hitler was Marxist? He wasn't Marxist. Anyone who thinks that needs to do their research.
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:iconcomradecat:
ComradeCat Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank You!
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:iconthe-necromancer:
The-Necromancer Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I have my sympathies for comrade Stalin. I believe that we shouldn't forget the genuine and true achievements he had initiated. That being said, I do have many criticisms of comrade Stalin as well. When he screwed up, he really screwed up. He was paranoid. Some of his actions, purposeful or not, did lead to unnecessary deaths. That isn't something one should ever admire.

At the end of the day, just as with any man of great standing and legacy, we should examine what was done well and celebrate it. We should examine what was done wrong and discover how not to do so again in the future. Stalin, to me, is someone who should be remembered for his real and practical accomplishments, but ridiculed and criticized for his costly failings. It is to remember both of these things that I keep a picture of the "Man of Steel" on my desk with another of comrade Lenin.

Let the Capitalists say what they will. Unless they take the long view of history and realize their own greed has killed many more than this one man, and Josef Stalin actually DID do some good in the world, they will always get away with taking the cheap way out of an argument by playing the "Stalin Killed INFINITE MILLIONS" card.
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I hear ya, I always saw Stalin as a grey area in my own opinion, nether good nor chaotic baby eating evil ether.
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:iconrenjikuchiki1:
renjikuchiki1 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Student General Artist
i respect this man above almost all others (aside from Lenin)........ those numbers were blown out of proportion, and the people he did "kill" were the victims of an unforeseeable famine that developed during the mass-industrialization of the USSR
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:iconcosaco:
Cosaco Featured By Owner Jul 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Socialists will always have the shadow of stalin creeping behind us :(
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:iconkamolex:
kamolex Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student General Artist
It's a shame socialists have been tricked into trying to keep ahead of Stalin, rather than standing on his shoulders.
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:iconbullmoose1912:
BullMoose1912 Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's like blaming for the creation of fascism and objectivism on Friedrich Nietzsche.
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:icondalong8:
DaLong8 Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2012
hahaha yes true! rightist and capitalist favorite one. they can not make real point so go to say this "communists killed X number of people."
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:icondavidmcb:
davidmcb Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2012  Professional Filmographer
What! why everybody knows it was 500 trillion!
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Nonsense it was really 60000 trillion.
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:icondavidmcb:
davidmcb Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2012  Professional Filmographer
;)
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:iconcomradederpy:
ComradeDerpy Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2012
Precisely. I facepalm every time I see the misuse of the word "communism"; this just points out another reason why!
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:iconmaster-of-the-boot:
Master-of-the-Boot Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Stalin was a cocksucker and a half, and he did kill millions through his paranoia and policy. But i'm still a Socialist and proud of it
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:iconkamolex:
kamolex Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student General Artist
When did Stalin manage to kill so many people? In between counter-revolutionary sabotage of collectivization and Yezhov's and company's misleading "investigations?" I just find it hard to call the man a cock-sucker when he presided over the construction of the world's first socialist economy and a time of unprecedented economic growth that has yet to be matched.
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:iconblitzkriegoperative:
Blitzkriegoperative Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Why this in the Communist group? It looks pretty anti to me
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Mainly because its pointing out a logic fallacy anti communists use aka the "Communists killed 2359235834856 trillion people." arguement or using Stalin as a shut me up card when talking about socialism in general. As my friend pointed earlier its generally this trope but replaced with Stalin [link]
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:iconblitzkriegoperative:
Blitzkriegoperative Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I see, that's their trump card, which kinda fails on them most of the time.
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:iconmidnight-tea:
Midnight-Tea Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Since this is kind of becoming a discussion about the failings of the Soviet Union in general, I do want to say I don't think it's necessarily communism that failed as a concept. Perhaps on some level it's an unfinished system that wasn't ready for prime time, I can't say. I'm not a scholar on the topic. But I do want to say that the execution of collective farming contributed a lot to the problem.

And yeah, it's definitely that people aren't allowed to discuss or embrace the values of socialism -- or even celebrate communism -- without it being considered a huge taboo. Even if you're a hardcore, patriotic American, shouldn't you be allowed to steal or reverse engineer ideas from your perceived "enemies"? What could be a better way to make them out to be complete buffoons than make their experiment work, even if in a controlled setting?

... did I just somehow introduce Megaman to this topic?
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:iconkidsapiens:
KidSapiens Featured By Owner Jul 29, 2012
Dangit, why did you bring Megaman into this?
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:iconmidnight-tea:
Midnight-Tea Featured By Owner Jul 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Because he's the blue bomber, not the red bomber.
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Super late response, but speaking of Red bombers.
[link]
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:iconviolette-kollontai:
Violette-Kollontai Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
OH YES, most of anticommunist people said this, and i realy dislike this stupid argument, they think that is the fucking true.

But i am communist and i hate Stalin.
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:iconmilitant-poet:
Militant-Poet Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Good thing I don't have to formulate a reply based upon statistics, philosophy, economics or logic, because STALIN KILLED 50 MILLION PEOPLE!

I sure showed you!
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:iconoverlord299:
Overlord299 Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012
He didn't kill them, not intentionally at least. He was just horrifically incompotent at anything that wasn't politics. The purge is a different story entirely.

Any ideaology can be perverted if the person in charge is powerful enough, Capitalists have locked up decent communist workers for the "crime" of being communist (Never understood the point in it myself, if they do their job I don't care if they are socialist, communist, facist or whatever else takes their fancy. Plus it just wastes resources because you have to feed them and cloth them and wash them, Like owning a exspensive pet. Waste of money)
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:iconlarroney:
larroney Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Student Writer
Perfect. Always annoying when an argument is 'won' by introducing an irrelevent point designed to win by emotion alone.
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:iconpkbchaz:
PKBChaz Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2012
You do know that Stalin and the Whole Soviet Union is a horrible example of the communist Ideal?
I mean I'm a communist and I hate Stalin
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:iconendivie11:
Endivie11 Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013
Agreed so much! The workers can only liberate themselves :)
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:iconpkbchaz:
PKBChaz Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2013
And they did, I love how when Stalin died the CCCP was like, oh yeah he was evil XD
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:iconyinai-185:
Yinai-185 Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I agree with you 100%
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:iconpkbchaz:
PKBChaz Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012
:)
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:iconmrminos:
MrMinos Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2012
I actually have to chuckle at that a little, because I see the humor behind the card...even though it's pretty chilling what Stalin did and Hitler (add name here). Stalin was apparently a real asshole when it came to killing his own people. Still it's a pretty funny card.


Ahem, Stalin was a wimp compared to the Overbird though. He'll show 'em how it's done! :devil:
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Well I don't think Stalin personally ordered and oversaw every single death, its a grey area and I feel the numbers are overblown by cold war propoganda that lingers to this day, not to say the man was any better, he still did alot of horrible things and repressed freedom. I just hate people on the right playing "Socialists killed X number of people." cards in debates, instead of talking about the merits of said systems.

and yes the overbird could tank Stalin :p
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:iconoverlord299:
Overlord299 Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012
He signed off on the purge, The holodomor however, which is what many refer to as an example of Stalin evilness, was more because of horrific incompetence on Stalin's part than real malice (I hope)

And what is this "overbird" of which you speak? It confuses overlord immensely.
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:iconshiki-scarlet:
Shiki-Scarlet Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
More of a weird injoke.
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:iconoverlord299:
Overlord299 Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2012
Alrighty then. I am now unconfused, thank you for the clarification.
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